Adverse Possession for Commercial Practitioners

Well, im goes find 20 minutes talking to you about adverse possession on. We look at the three different sets off circumstances you could have with adverse possession on the importance to make a clear, detailed investigation of the circumstances before you give clients any advice about how likely they are to succeed. But first of all, what I'd like to mention is the problem off what I call incremental arrest possession on Mr Understanding that the general boundaries rule late to the foot of everyone who thinks that the red line on the Mandresh plan shows boundary. So it first of all, a misunderstanding of the plants on the deeds on the General Landry rule. This is something which is probably called the land registry a great deal of annoyance because they're not dating with applications from first possession, we should absolutely no basis whatsoever. I was looking at one recently when a suitably well educated convincer claimed adverse possession on the the adverse possession form. Onda said that the the upper selection started 10 months ago. How anyone in their right mind could think that 10 months give you the right to remove something else is out from the time it was beyond me. But again, just not really thinking through thinking. His question for me informs, you will have to ask the client a lot of serious information about history and use. So first of all, what is the matter actually say in their practice guide for it? So the title plans will generous title Show me the general position of boundaries unless they showed, has determined that's almost never the case. This means no. Hold something solid. While say these words, it is possible for an area of land to be within a registered title, go ahead, even though it's outside the red edging of the plan. Did I really say that? Yes, I did. You can own land and have title to it, even though it's not within the red edging now. That's not because it's a mistake. Although the rent edging needs to be altered, that's how land registration is. The red line frequently includes land that you don't have on frequently. There is land included you that they included in the title rather that is not included in the red line. It goes on to say. Conversely, it is possible for an area glad not think for doing the rest of title, even though it is within the red edging. In other words, it is not possible for the Landra Street. You find the precise boundary back position by interesting question. Look at public school 19. Now I hear you say This is ridiculous. How could we possibly have a system of land convincing when everything is so vague? Rubbish. We wanted to be accurate. Well, it can't. It never has been and never will be. And it wouldn't pay for it if it waas you across the channel. But Trump's fortunately, or unfortunately for us here. Napoleon didn't conquer us on. We didn't adopt his industrial system, and we went for a much cheaper, quicker, more pragmatic system, which, unfortunately, is rubbish when it comes to accuracy in front, you want to know what Bandera gave you are married. You uses a plan because you metre, they come out and they agreed, and that's a job after it to one centimeter Here. In contrast, we have to pay £25,000 in court fees. The other thing is in France. You might think that's wonderful, accurate. Each time you register your transfer, it will cost you 10 to £20,000 in under SUV's. Which one do you want? Most people prefer the cheap rubbish system here because in most cases it works. But then we have the bonfire recital. These in the early part of this century, worthless has decided, particularly residential convinces you do it all from you dual conveyancing from looking Soviet Lambros Tree Plant. Yes, you can do the convincing from doing that, but you have therefore completely ignored any accuracy over what it is. You're actually conveying. The battle the client wants. That's all. They usually are prepared. PayPal. Then that's what they get. They get inaccurate boundaries. Red lines do not show the Landry Street. Have I mentioned practice four. I also mentioned Practice Guy five. I'd also suggest you go re practice going 77 that we look at later on, also public, 19 and Richard extremely good, providing readable information that clients can understand to explain exactly what the purpose of 100 she is. It is not there to police boundaries. It is not there to resolve disputes is not there to say exactly where the boundaries that is the job of the courts. Now it turns out that matters are agreed with you on your next door neighbor over where the actual boundary is. Well, you've agreed where the boundaries, and you might agree in a document saying, This is where we agree. The boundary may have a demarcation agreement shopping where the boundaries and it is the document. It is saying where the boundaries it is, not the red line on the Mandresh. In time, I don't even have to be in the same place. It is a document which has priority. Now. It could be yours. Make things tidy. You may make an application for Android. Streeto. Either have position set or you may bacon application under the AP, one on agreed application by both parties for the Red Line to be moved so that it more correctly reflects the legal Audrey. And that's what I quote. They're moving down that it would be an application to either also their plan, their neighbors title plan. All the neighbors type plan only to show that the position more accurately, and you do that on a P one on if he would be assessed, or you could use the Allegri's procedure But it's almost impossible to prepare a plan to the little actress that they expect that most clients it's Mr Terrified, horrified by the fact that they can't just get their red line on the land. Election time scale from it. It has never bean that case. There is no and has never seen any basis for this belief. We're not French. Me chips we usually overweight, were not stylish, were English. But at least we achieve pragmatic. That's what you've got. So anyway, don't forget. Also, if you watched my highways boundary seminar that the land raise, your red line will never include any land that is affected by highway, right. You may end the subsoil up to the middle of the road, but the public may have public rights of way, whether adopted or not above it. On as you could see, even if you expressly can prove that you do on don't own a road, the red line will always go on the edge of any physical feature, a structure near the boundary of your property. Andi, quoting that drool to 78 practice, got 77. This rule will apply, notwithstanding that part or whole of any ditch wall fence wrote stream or other boundary is expressly included or excluded from the title and showing the rather to some people's minds bizarre fact that you could have a private state road, which is serving safe. Cem houses on a residential state where it's privately owned Access Way Andi. The transfers of each individual plot is usually going to be silent because maybe thinks about this on the land rich. You'll put the red line on the front line of by a defense or something of that nature or shrub on the developed will end up with a residual piece of land with title number of the original parcel. But there is no land included in the developers title. And in fact, what happened is that as a result of the ad medium violent rule, half of the subsoil off the state road has gone to the adjoining owners as the position of the red line on the land directory plan. That's a fence does not show the legal boundary, and you can apply to the land registry to have the red line moved to the middle of the road and they'll say, Well, no, because of this rule on the red line doesn't mean that you do or don't only anyway. So go away and read off guides and stop bothering us. I'm gonna look atyour pre registration deeds or your original transfers or your original agreements wherever you bought the land for all if they own the road after whether you are or not. So mental note. When you're buying land adjoining a highway or road or part, agree with settler if they own it where the boundary is on whether the red line on the conveyance or transfer plan, it is intended to show the legal boundary on whether it will include all or any part off the adjoining road or path on whether the at medium firm rule is going to be rebutted or not, that's the first point. The next thing moving on to adverse possession, pure and simple, is tiny. There are three different sets of rules that might apply when someone claims title. By our first possession, I've come across cases worth you just bundle into the new system, not realize you were going to fail. They fail, and then the client thinks this is ridiculous. Get second sister's advice he says medication made the application. They should have made application on the old transitional provisions where they would win. They may be an argument. They can't do that because we rescued a cop. But anyway, so timing is everything. So the first possibilities land is unregistered, in which case the limitation at regime applies and you get the land. As a result, all the limitation are not the result of any application to the land registry. You have it once the relevant limitation period has expired is obviously not so marketable because all you've got statues declaration that you've been there for a long period of time. So you make make a first registration application. Onda. We look at that in a moment to the unregistered land you other. It is the limitation period expired. End of story. Now what about the possibility that the land is registered? We have two possible regimes that we need to explain how we got there. Well, when the land registration routine was introduced in the 25 the idea was to mirror the limitation so that if you have occupied the land to the necessary quality causes nature for the 12 year period. Then, as a result of the limitation act, the land become yours. And the title will be in the name off the rest proprietor. But they held under Stategy Trust Section 75 for you as the true owner. No. So when you make the application, Franco's possession in that what you're really doing is curing the defect in registration, which shows that the rest of surprises their owner, whereas in fact, on the limitation that you're the honor, this meant that there was a mismatch between the rich proprietor on the actual owner. So when in 2000 to the Eurasian was dropped it it was decided to change, quite insignificantly, the way which the first possession rules would apply to registered land. First point is that these statutory trusts were abolished on the limitation does not apply to registered land. Yeah, it is completely either supplied on you could occupy land 400 years and get no legal right in the land. If it's rest, type the arrested man become yours. No. These factory trusts are replaced by the concept of over the interests. So the key question you have to ask the client is what has happened on the land on when on Can you show that you occupied this land to the appropriate quality way by the 13th of October 2003? Because if the client has had a lot things being equal 12 years adverse possession as up 13th of October 2003 didn on the title to the land hasn't changed is that date. They own the land and they will make an application to the laboratory under the fr one first registration application rules under practice Guy for so interesting that fr is the same as transitional provisions in terms of forms sexually years? No. If your client hasn't got to prove that they've bean in occupation by the 13th of October 2003 and the land is registered, then you can only use the new regime which has been changed to make virtually scored proof under the limitation acting under the transitional regime once that relevant limitation period expired, it became your land you required right in that land. However, under the new regime, you quite no rights in the land per se or you get is the right to make an application to the land registry on the time period involved is only 10 years of occupation. Andi, you make the application. The applications will see you get notified to the risk surprise of rest provider objects. You failed so vitally important to understand what has actually happened on the site. Let me come on to the point what I call incremental adverse possession friends to come to see you because they got a piece of land adjoining. And they bought the house in 1970. And they always thought that that piece of land was this. Andi. It may or may not be that discussion with the previous owner about it there not being any documentation about it. But they say, Well, we always thought this land is ours, Onda. We cut the grass on it. For years we've been cutting the grass on it since 1970 Onda. And then after a few years, we put a few guard names and a few hours in it. And then about 10 years ago, we popped out, um, car on it. We parked the car in ever since Onda and it all kicked off about six months ago when we decided we got fed up with people trying to squat on Uncle Park on our land or a rubbish secretary. So we put a fence up in, and it usually did that. This chap who lives near us came back and said, What the hell are you doing Putting your fence on my land? And we said, only Southland we've seen on it. We've scored two people and especially, you know, years go away. And he said, No, I'm gonna I'm gonna say if you don't mind. So they said before about it, and we find out where he lived. I mean, put in actually store saying, Look, we're able to fall out of their neighbors. I'll tell you what, we'll give you 3000 time for it, and we never anything ever since we come to see you to sort it. All I've got is our man. We got squatters rights, but what have you got there when you won't pick it? Well, what you got there is incremental possession, and then you've got acknowledging the title. So basically, they've got not elect to stand on. Because there simply cutting the grass isn't sufficient quality. Cicely, to constitute squatting on the land on planting flowers on it isn't sufficient parking a car government isn't sufficient, um, passively fence around it at the time it would be, but it wasn't when they put the fence around. That was when they started to squat on a Super League with fence run the true owner of them, and came to get off it. So if that fed should be not for 10 years, they may have been all right. But what happened next? Waas. They offered to buy the land on any indulgent title, wipes the slate clean and removes any time from the equation. So this is why I say you've got to sit down to get a clear understanding exactly what has happened over the whole period of the time that clients playing to have occupied it before you give any advice on whether they got any squatter's rights or not. So festival. Let's have a look at verse, succession of unrest, event term, right? What do you need to prove? Is it 12 years or is it no? Well, it's 12 years unless the land is owned by the crown, in which case is 30 years. But what a catch is that the land may be owned by limited company. Originally on that limited company get struck off is that Clinton get struck off companies register, then the land reverts to the crime. So obviously a difficult years with unrest. A man You don't know the address because you can look it up. Mandarich. If you have some sort of indication of who the company is that may have owned, the video may have Bean do. Some investigations with the injuries were the civil life where they live in when they don't live and it is a limited company. Do a company search to see whether the company is still in existence? Because if it's being struck hole, it will then be able by crime State. And you may have to prove 30 years, and you can't prove 30 years you'll have to buy from they usually quite happy to buy it. Now, of course, if the owner off the company, the shareholders off the company making application to the court, the reconstitution, the company, then they stand the other little wrinkle in this, which is worth looking out for these. When did the 12 years expire? Because it's 12 years in my understanding is that 12 years expired before the company got struck off. Then you got the land on the limitation activism that has no interest in the fact that it struck off. There's no it's gonna not have any effect on the matter on your period will be binding on the ground state. So again, you may have to argue with them about that. If it's for short land on the shore, etcetera, the period is 60 years. So commencement of proceedings by the paper owner stops title running. However, on time starts to run when the legal owner of the land has discontinued possession or has bean dispossessed on, this course has taken out first possession. The right of action to recover land is not treated as accruing unless the land is in some person whose favorite limitation can run. And what's the relevant limitation periods expired. Then the paper title is extinguished. It's not a transfer of the land to the squatter. There is no squatting transfer by limitation. That it's a new title is created by defeating the right of anyone else to impute the courses. New title to the land, which is why your application Landra She is a first registration application. I said before, if he's arrested land and you can prove it, you will have to do statue decoration to roll on Sunday proved the nature of the occupation. As we will talk at the end of this talk. If you haven't got those 12 years, then you have to go on to be I thought something. If you haven't got 12 years, the land has become breakfast in that time. Then you have to look at whether you can use the 25 transitional provisions Practice guide five. You must show this quarter has actual possession of the land. Scott has the necessary intention of disaster. Land on this course in possession is without the owner's consent. On all of this has been true during least 12 years. Price The date of the application. Now what evidence you need when you're gonna need statue declarations on the land Registry complains about words used from presidents books. You have to use clear English to say what actually happened and who owns what and why. They say that on what they're actually used. An occupation, rather words like at all material times we have seen an occupation of the receipt of the rents and profits of the land. These are the landlord, she says, off little if any, value the extent by which lands in enclosed by fences and nature who directed them, but by when and how long it would be maintained. And if there are gates, whether it's a lock and key to the gate, for example, fence that's being put up by your clients for the gate in it, the gates not marked well, basically, the jury can always repossess land. Walk around it. If the Turner has gone onto the land at any time in the period, you claim to perhaps carry out works. Squatter hasn't taken steps to keep him off. Then your client will never have actually dispossessed Sure off the land, the courts do not lightly allow on owner to lose their land by, um, squatter on relatively minimal acts. Amazing repair by the older, maybe enough to displace any possession claim by the squatter so full on detailed information over what exactly has happened Where there any signs, fences, games, etcetera. On. If you make the application, Andi um, it is disputed by the registered proprietor. You making application of the transitional provisions than the land actually does not result. The issue. All the lander is she does is no. You find the rest of proprietor off the application on then if the restaurant fire to accept buying, the rest provide doesn't accept. Then I undressed you. Refer both parties to the courts, and it goes to the tribunal on the tribunal decides on the party's pay, their costs on the yellow size cost of the leaves, Onda. And then, when the tribe you has made his decision, then the land registry will make a note of that decision as regards position, Red Line. But it's still not include any roads or parts we've heard before. Right now. What about adverse possession under 2000 to act practice guys for Okay, go read it. The limitation period is not 12 years. It is a shorter period of 10 years. Possession for any period of time does not give you any rights on the land gives you only the right to make an application to the land registry. But there are only some exceptions to the 10 year period. First of all, enemies and prisoners of war, no one can apply to be registered during or within 12 months over and after any period in which the existing provider is in any why we seem to protect enemies or is detained in enemy territory with, you know, happen. More importantly, disabilities. No one can apply to be registered during any period in which the existing rich propriety is unable because of mental disability, to make decisions about issues off the kind of which such an application could make or is unable to communicate due to mental or physical impairment. So if the rest proprietor falls into that category, no squatting for any period of time will work. And even more important, one trust you cannot get on first, possession off trust land and our story full stop you go home do not collect £200. It doesn't have any exception to that position in relations. Transition provisions in trust is different and more generous to Scott. So is it on by trust, it's rested. You can find out who owns 80 owned on trust is a restriction on it. If so, it's never gonna work. Then next situation. Crime foreshore 60 years now. What happens if you do have that plane a TV one with static. The I have any other evidence and in the same way, extensive detail off the nature of the occupation. What is the address you do well, they act as a postal service. They will very find there's a prime facing case. They will then most if I the rest of her prime, anyone who's noted interest in the property on any charge holder and any superior interest etcetera, etcetera, that allow the person who receives the next has to do, he said. The continent is within 65 business days on your client's plane fails. End of story. If they set and they do nothing, then York Scott client becomes rich provider. But if they file any P saying we don't agree, then again, Lander, she don't sort out. They will simply tell the other parties idea except Scott. But they object. If you don't accept this goes to court. Mandresh doesn't get involved. No, that will be fatal on opposition in all cases, unless you as Scott er plane in your original application, and it's no good doing later that the three convict one of the three conditions apply. The 1st 1 is equity of the stop, but because of circumstances, it would be unfair or unconscionable for the slaughter toe, not on the land, or that you are intact the land. Some of the reasons transfer registered or that the finery has been in this position for 10 years, and it was reasonable for these gotta to think that that was his boundary. But the 10 years has to run right the way up to the application date. So once that 10 years had expired, your client needs the bang in the application because if he thinks it's at his land for 10 years and then the rest of a private puts him right says no, it's not. And then a period of time expires. He will not be able to use the condition three, but it is absolutely vital that if one of these three conditions might apply, the squatter makes notice off. This makes this plane in the original static decoration. That evidence statement, truth etcetera, then the rest proprietor, when they served with the notice conceive that that Scotty's guys claim on three conditions on is able to in their response, underneath the say where they accept or not the three conditions apply. If the three conditions are invoked on its not grand list, then what happens again? Lander she don't sold out. Landry should give the possibility. Gives me parties time to sort that on. If they don't sort out. Then the registrar refers it to the tribunal assault, auto adjudicated work. But what they do is gone. It's no. It is referred to the upper tier trying first year tribunal as appropriate. Now, if, um, the squatter makes the application, it's defeated a tribunal or there isn't one where the three conditions apply. Then Scott leases. They could have been on that number 30 years. It doesn't matter at all. They lose. That's why I say this. But the rest of land is virtually scored proof. However, there is a saving that is, this quarter remains in possession for a further period. Then this quarter has a second chance to apply Andi. If the retro proprietor makes an application to the court for on obtains a possession action, this quarter will not be able to make the application. The restaurant project either has to kick the Scots off, given application of course, possession, or perhaps come to a deal with Qatar. Qatar remains on the land for another couple of years. In that case, the Russian fighter will be faced with another application by the Scott her. And in this case you only have 15 days to reply. And if he doesn't reply, he will improve past. This quarter has been kicked off or he has got a court order and he would lose his land rimming on, then toe, considering what you have to prove in order to make a successful application under the other's flesh in order to regimes what you have to prove is the same. You have to prove that you have possessed the land with the intention to possess. On this went all the way to the House of Lords on the he European court. What Scott has to prove. Or you don't have to show that you have squatted on the land with the Algerian motive that on one day you're going to get ownership it all the way to prove that you have physically and mentally possessed it with the intention of possessive rather than by accident, and that this possession has bean without the owner's consent. Any possession under a life symbols or consent Onley offer to buy the paper titles land within the 10 years off. 12 years as a privilege defeats the title. Well, there you go, Party history off adverse possession but say make do look at practice. Guys, 77 in particular, do re practice guys for five more on the climb that they may not have any case at all to make if it in fact, is a mistake of understanding of the nature of the German varieties rule. Thank you.