Rebuttal Evidence

Well, everybody, welcome to another Webinar delivered from data online. Hopefully, you're going to enjoy today's webinar, which I'm going to deliver to you on rebuttal evidence. My name's Creepers with for those you don't know me. I'm legal director for credit Higher Accident Exchange. So hopefully well placed to be able to deliver this weapon onto you. So hopefully by the younger today session, I'm gonna taking you through some really interesting things, particularly in relation to evidence on rates. And hopefully, by the end of today session, you will bay literally going. I cannot believe that that happens now. I've probably slide up to give you really a little bit of fair warning. This is about the claimants perspective. I am a claimant at my heart. I've been a claim it for the last 20 odd years on this, which is a started offers a defendant. I am slightly biased when it comes to this. So I considered where do you start on Isn't really really big. Scratchy had moment, because when it comes to rates, evidence in relation to hire charges, you've really got to come to consider What were the rates six months ago or 12 months ago because it's not as easy in a straightforward or saying what this is, what the rates are today. Because the race today are so different and so potentially different for what the rates out tomorrow, let alone what they were months ago. Bizarrely, would you believe that one company, one of the major credit hire companies? So one of the major hire companies in the UK as sold me that actually, on a Wednesday iron challenges nationally are 12% higher. So it goes really impact when you get your information as to whether or not that higher vehicle was available up that time from where is that important? Well, well, I'll take you through that as we come through today. Slides. So what is a rebuttal? Well, legally, it's a form of evidence that is presented to contradict or nullify other evidence that has been presented by an adverse policy. So in that respect, what does that mean? Well, essentially saying that when we are faced with evidence from defendants as to what a rate is that I should be able tow legally say, I know minute s something Ramadan evidence. And here's the counter evidence to contradict what you've said now. This is major whenever specifically coming back to that point in relation to what the rate waas on the day. Because what I find these, that most defendants cannot provide evidence from a specific day. And that's frustrated. And that's how you why, in a minute, But what else is it legally? Well, enroll Special rules re applying surrebuttal Remorseful evidence must be confined solely to the subject matter of the evidence. Reported again, that sentence is quite important. It's a subject matter of the evidence reported. So if I've got rates, Aaron Defendant that provide me with information is to want a daily rate is followed, say, of obsolete course and in Manchester today that I can report that evidence and saying, I'm gonna make that's wrong on here's some evidence points screen shots were taken from that company that say otherwise. Both new evidence on other subjects may not be brought scenery portal, in which case, what we're talking about there is, I can talk about the pop soul costume and run chance that because that's what the evidence that I am rebooting but I can't now, for instance, is a complete off the wall introduced evidence in relation to the locus photographs taken in the accent. See nothing to do with the evidence that I'm rebooting. Never. I can't just pull that out of the bag in this type of re beautiful response. So we're looking at this in relationship to credit higher. Then what is it is a claim specific witness statement. I can't stress that enough because you cannot create these rebuttals generically. You can't have a situation where you're right one, and it's relevant to every single case that ever has been bottling again. He simply it's warm case. It is about what but high rate is for but vehicle. And it's essential if your barrister wants to argue against the evidence adduced by the defendant because, of course, your barrister current bringing in new evidence himself. Yes, so therefore, it's the only document which might persuade a judge that's on the bottles of probabilities. The defendant is not discharged their evidential burden to show that the claim in admin alternative fire vehicle Now the light, the bit that I like most about the report will evidence, and this is from my experience is that when you produce the rebuttal evidence is likely to generate an enhanced offer from the defendant and quite often avoids trial. And therefore it needs to be constructing well to decimate the credibility of their own evidence. And I suppose that's quite a pejorative word when I'm saying decimate because historically we've had issues with companies that have produced these rates. You may be aware of the auto focus debacle where people have now gone to prison on the back of the fact that they were producing evidence that was incorrect. So why is he so important for roses? A credit hire company? Well, I want to get me high charges in full, of course. On the same my high judges, they're not mine there, my clients and that's, Ah, enforceability discussion, which is the subject of one of our other webinars, and you're biased that can't give evidence on your behalf. So the bit that I talked about in the previous and slide, you know, I can't give the bios that the evidence, the screenshots for that Fox all costs in Manchester and say, Put now in front of the judge and tell him he's wrong, in which case I've got to be able to get a rebuttal to say that the defendants evidence is wrong. Otherwise, it is literally. The judge has got no alternative is gonna for me to be on the defendant traits evidence because he won't deal of any other evidence in front of him. Rex, like my next boy point and probably a bit tambien cheek, not soldier. Jeez. Hey, credit hire companies, but they have to have some things on their judgment on. And I don't know if you've read some of the judgments in credit higher and how, uh, the world is probably dismissive. Judges are of the fact that credit hire companies provide a valuable service to people who have been involved in non fall accidents. It's almost a pain that the ongoing battle is won January 1st 2 it continues when you produce three bottles. It also makes the job of the defendants rates of a lot harder. Because if their evidence is consistently challenged and then repeatedly fails than either the deeply solicitous to instruct them, not gonna carry on giving them work or the remiss position where really what's the value of their work? Therefore end up having insufficient new work because people will realize that they just come up produce evidence that is realistically out. Of course, so is quite good for making me the side look dishonest when they when you produce evidence that says no, this is not quite right. Here's the screenshot showing exactly what that rate is for that company for that day, and that's exactly what happened. We also focus. So you've got to do some planning about this because with rebuttal evidence, if you just got every bottle evidence once on one claim No, that might not work or it might work. But what you really need is a strategy on you need to be aligned with your lawyer on this. Obstructed you point. So if your son there listening to this weapon I was a lawyer working for credit iron companies. You might well want to get them in the room and say, I'm gonna Really What? Should I strike? Did you be here? Here? We gonna pick off? When are we going to challenge it? At what point? During the claim are we going to challenge it on? All these things are vitally important to get your strategy clear. I met. Make sure your barristers understand your strategy. Part of this, you really need to agree with the defendant Solicitors Directions were disclosure under a bottle because what we found is that typically the standard orders fall into one of two times of directions. One of their is what we referred to is the each party order on each party having permission to rely on a short survey of spot higher rates in the claimants locality. Those factual surveys must be incorporated in our exhibited to a witness statement. The witness statement must contain the following FUCKs who conducted the survey when and in what way the survey was conducted. Of course, who conducted the service blindingly obvious. Please put a name to it. Make sure you do. It's a statement, truth when and in what way the survey was conducted. So what's he done through Web search? Was it done through checking historical records that the company owns? Was it done by way of telephone calls to companies in the claimants locality? The survey should also established the equivalent vehicles were available for higher on the cost off, the higher to be set out in a concise schedule that it's vitally important on bizarrely, I don't think judges paying off attention to a particular point, especially when you bear in mind the case. Lot of Stevens I'm following on from Stevens, But Bride, When you read those two cases, you see, it becomes absolutely perfectly clear that it's about the vehicle hired to the type of person who is hired that type of vehicle up the time of higher. And then whether, having provided that there is any evidence to suggest that the equivalent vehicle have been available at the commencement of the higher that's back to what's in front of the judge. If the judge has rates from the defendants in relations and what it would cost a higher vehicle today and no every bottle, then it's only gonna be today's rate. But you're likely to get. I'm There are problems with today's right now. Taking three goes before the end of this session, so I want to provide. I'll be in a position where I can provide my rates evidence in rebuttal off this evidence as opposed to each party having this permission to rely on the evidence as each plants you lying on. This evidence really puts me in a bad position as a claiming are representing. Explain them. I've got the contract that declaiming a sign that makes him legally responsible to repay the higher charges at the amount that he agreed. So if the claimant then has a responsibility to produce his own evidence showing that that rate was wrong, then contractually, he's still responsible to repay the full amount. Arguably, might not get it back, Which is why, my mind, Each party on who really is the wrong order. You're the order. We try and get history. Both Florida, the defendant, do serve evidence of basic high rates available within the claim. Its geographical location from a mainstream supplier for the vehicle actually hired on the terms heads of the claimant for the dates covering acclaimed higher vehicle. Now, really, as much as we still ask the court for this is norther when we get it, the bank on the terms high into the claimant is always dropped, and that's drops because we structured this request following the Steven's case, of course. But Bryant has now come along and said it's not about the terms that have been hired to the claimant per se because of the new access point, however, the other parts are all completely relevant. And if the defendant does serve that, we want to apply for permission to report. And if they want to agree to it, then we make your application, because when you see the evidence, it will be the first time as a claim in that you'll have known the defendant's case. The civil procedurals gives you a right to be on equal footing, evidentially so to the defendants to say the claimants hired a greatness and reasonable. But I'm not going to sell you in the defense what the reasonable rate is, then that's no fair. It's not found in claiming because actually, there may be no equivalent vehicle available. And certainly last Christmas, for instance, are so the Christmas before. If you wanted to hire a car from ABC in Bolton on the 23rd of December, they have no vehicles available. Nothing you couldn't hire ridiculous, you know as well show up shop because they on their website showed the down no vehicles available. And so, you argue, is partners that natural justice demands. You should have the right to comment on any flaws in their evidence and you want to speak to those higher companies reference by defendants rate witness to ensure that they did have a vehicle at the appropriate time at the rate quoted again, This is buck standing but to also focus where they suggested that they had contacted a branch of a beast in Chesterfield, the higher a Mercedes vehicle were we contacted Davies Chesterfield. What was found out from them was, they don't hire any prestige vehicles, that's all. And you would have to go to Sheffield in order to hire oppressed each vehicle. We said to them, Well, that can't be right because we've got the statement. If in this lady also focused that says she contacted June was told this Andi eighties, Chesterfield said, Well, that's got to be a lie. Ultimately, that's exactly what happened. That lady was called to court. The judge found that she was giving dishonest evidence and she had a 28 day suspended sentence. Really is a strong is that when it comes to saying Hang on a minute, is that rates evidence? Correct. But as we just keep saying all of these things that make it quite aggressive and contentious realistically providing the evidence from the defendant. They well crystallized in battle, opportunity to settle the claim. Pretrial. And ultimately, that's the overriding objective. We've got to give everything that we can't be having this discussion to try and settle it. Now there is a useful case on rebuttals. It's the case of Gonzalez and Dignity. Funerals limited on others. Okay. And what tried to do is pull political speedy Gonzalez to help you remember that for those old New York. For those of you old enough theory bar Reba Disney character, I think it was Disney. Certainly countering anyway, So yeah, the Gonzalez bit Hopefully that will make it a nice, easy way for you to remember. Okay. What happened there? Waas? We appealed that Siwei challenged every rates or order that had been provided by the courts. When we saw that, we kept challenging them to the point where then Wilson pulled a plethora of them together. I'm from that. They then ultimately came to a decision. I'm not decision. Was this a moment? It was that a claim. They will be a small claim, but it must still be conducted in line with the overriding objective. I e justly as well as a proportionate cost. Small crimes vary from those with £1000.10,000 pounds. The cost of parties in litigating answer the court they reduced. If the evidence of rates is filed earlier by defendants, our rebuttal evidence is permitted by claimants. The length of child's maybe juice under area settlement may occur. It may ensure that the court does not have to adjourn due to reclaim it, producing rates, evidence or applying to reduce right evidence to report at the hearing. Looking forward, defendants may consider that is best policy and in line with CPR 16 to plead the factual basis off that case on lowest reasonable rates in their defenses. Of course, if defendants file evidence that is clearly tainment in the lowest reasonable rates in the claimants area and from a mainstream supplier, there may well be no challenge. It lies with the defendant to prove its case. She's a really interesting point. So, bearing that in mind, we then got directions on in accordance with the authorities, the claimant most first, if he so claims, produce the evidence to prove that he could not have afforded the higher up from I that he was in peculiar Okay, so let's just pause a moment there. The most simple way to do that is to produce within your readings confirmation as to whether or not the claimant claims to be impecunious. If he says he is in the pleadings, then this is a lot easier for us to say. I'm gonna make the defendant knew the case. They won't know about the evidence at that point, but they knew the Kleber was going to say he was skin, so my northern were for impecunious. So if the defendant does not accept that the climate was impecunious on the evidence produced, he should then have to show that there was a comparable alternatives available to the claimants at a lower rate than the Kentucky jewel credit. Higher rates. So javale It's not necessarily being factually Erie bookable on issues as the true capacity comparability soy on availability, the claimant should have further time to rebook. The defendant rates evidence with these own factual evidence directed specifically at the rate or rates the defendant seeks to rely upon. Clearly, it's on the equitable that the claimant should have the opportunity to report such rates. Evidence in practice What we've seen since this Gonzalez case. Some sisters are very good at this, but in their defense they have a one page a piece of evidence that says this is what the rate should be. Now I might argue that defendant, that that's insufficient evidence, and I want to see terms and conditions and screenshots etcetera. But at least they've taken this to heart on hearts, often them for doing so. But essentially, what that commentary means is that within 28 days of the date of this, order the claim and provide evidence in support of impecunious city. Failure to comply with this date means the claimant been debarred amazing in proc Union City at the final Hearing Que two. This is a claim that we've got ahold arms up and say this is what the score is. Either him skin or not skin. And if I'm if I can't get my evidence to show him skin that I'm left with the fact that I'm not skin okay, that's key, because then within 42 days of the date of this order the defendant to file and serve evidence of higher rates available within the claim its geographical location from a mainstream supplier for the vehicle actually hired on the terms. Hide to the claimant number. Don't know if you're going away without prosper anyway. One for the dates covering the claimed high period within 56 days of the daily solder, the claim and, if so, advised violence. Every bottle evidence. Now those three directions to me absolutely key when it comes to responding to your directions questionnaire and providing proposed directions to the court. So course will take the morning and actually provide you with these. Some still don't even though we've had the guns out his case. And indeed, the Civil Procedurals Committee have looked into this undertaking a consultation because the standard directions, the each party directions that I referred to earlier when they talk about a spot right, what they're actually doing is talking about something that was pride to 2000 and 11 because that Baron Bent case introduced basic high rates as opposed to spot rates. I'm from that they are still antiquated directions now that consultation closed last August. That's a last August 2000 and 17 and we're still not have the result of that. I'm guessing That's because the CBRC is a bit busy on sorting out the draft rules for the changes to work Bush, but certainly frustrating that they create a consultation and then don't follow through by producing the ancestor consultation. So, just to recap on the things you need to plan, you need to ensure your barrister understands what you do you need. So Harmon strategy you need to identify here will provide your rebuttal evidence issue. Bottle Nomi takes a couple of hours to do, although you can create a template so you know the material terms of fire. I was postcode. They set fire, booed of higher actual car hired excess on high end car access waivers. Other extras. Additional driver charges, driver experience, age convictions, other accidents. All of those terms and conditions are there within the mainstream suppliers you've got and understand what they are. And you can build that resource by using the way back machine, which is crazy when you think about the into that, the way But Machine is a free to use Bassem Kit on the Web. I am that takes a snapshot of Web pages and you conventionally put in a company on the name and go back and find out from six years ago what their Web page looks like, Which is incredible too. I've said. Know your enemy. Okay, well, of course, to say this tongue intrigue, but the enemy is the rains providers that the defendants rely upon. So here we go. Is one of the end of me SG consultancy like this is why I get frustrated Because within SG consultancies terms there you can see that this is the historical evidence page on the emphasis on the second Court of Appeal that the case of better spoken on the importance of historical evidence. That's nice to know that SG consultancy understand the importance of the historical evidence. So they say, lost its not necessarily the case that historical evidence will be required in each case. sGC can provide evidence which continues to be case specific alongside historical data. So why is it that they've removed this Web page? Well, Quite simply, they've removed this web page because their evidence does not specifically provide it from the day that the claiming hired it's worrying because you can't they What? Did they have it on the day of side and the just choosing a different day because the rates of different. So here's another one waits raids on which right? Extensive databases of national historical data. Again, Worryingly, this one page is not there anymore. You'll see there on the top left hand side of the slide that it waas there on the fifth of June 2000 and 17 or 16 May 2000 scenting pretty served way. But Wednesday, very concise everything. That's the fifth of June 2017. Is there any rule because we were telling the moment in the re Buffels to say You've got this? You say on your Web site that you've got this, but you have not produced this in your evidence? Hello, build. It doesn't happen so fucking time Today's best trilogies that's ever been produced. And so from back inside, here's an example of what you can actually get if you do your data and I say I think it gave this and examples. I did tell a little bit of a porky pie here because you will see if you look closely that this is Bolton Avis car hire on the 23rd of December and you can see that the only car sorry available from 20 of the December to the 23rd of December the only vehicle they had available to higher on that day was that the Sadie's Benz Club? That was it. That no, the vehicles. So when you put in a baseball, But that is literally all we got was have been turned on that day. The 20th Wednesday, the 20th December crazy. I What is another little piece of information? And this is where you can use this in everyday life? Because it is crazy. All right, I'm gonna tell you to screenshots and hurts. Next one. South Hampton, once a bomb with international. We made up the postcode, and our database came back and showed is that within that postcode at 15.8 miles was the Southampton brunch of hurts If I want to the mine seats of transit. Okay, it was £15.86 a day exactly the same vehicle. But in Bournemouth International Airport, 14.9 miles away from the postcode that we made up exactly the same vehicle is £115. 17 you might said, get lost crying. All right, but is the evidence. Okay, This is great. If you look at this screenshot clearly closely, rather you can see in the top right home, Carlo. It talks about your itinerary. Become permits thirds Arabs, West key industrial zone. Okay, Pickle time. Thursday 29 to December 16 at midday. Returned to him a week later. No discounts, no arrival information. Your age is over 30 on the 69 8 restrictions are pretty big. Especially when you talk about young drivers. So, for instance, um, drivers Enterprise, for instance. What high? It's if you're under 25. You've got all the companies that Wilhite. If you're under 23 you're in a position where you if you are, then you pay your driver surcharge that sometimes as much as £30 a day. The all the clocks, the cheapest that £16.97 a day. Well, it really is a massive difference if you've got a human driver. But if I was to look it up for transit, what I would pay now is not unopened. In 11 pence, he farms to people about vehicle. Okay, Now what we do on our data is we attempt to book it 48 hours in advance. Okay, so we look at vehicles that are available in 48 hours, as opposed to vehicles that are only available on the day. It's really looked on the day it would be like a response. It's quite clear here that if I don't pay for this now, up from its £99.11 refined turned up on the day is on the new £11. Okay, I'm pain that the location. That's vitally important. When you because of Dr Herbal? Because these rates are not available If you're trying to book them before I was notice. Okay. Now watch this on the next line. Okay, Pick up. Location form within special airport in the top. Right hand side. Pickle time. Thursday the 29 to December midday. Remember about previous, like exactly the same pickle time when Kaine, however it for a week no discovers new arrival information. You ranges still between 13 69 least I'm not vaguely £720. £12 when you might say, Well, that's fine, because that's the furthest brunch away. But that was only a theoretical postcode. And this is really key to this. Okay, when you go on and you try and hire a vehicle. You as a person as an individual. What you see is you're in a position where it doesn't say. By the way, you've just save yourself a fortune. Because if you do golden Mile further, £720 neither does he say, if you've got a mile further, if you go onto his website Oh, don't book it from Southampton eso bomb with international airport. You want a book? You from South Johnson? Because if you book it from, sell them to the £700 cheaper Hi, companies don't do that. That's not what they're about. That about providing vehicles in certain locations to certain times. Okay, I'm not said so. You will never get be able to go on the hike company website and it will ever say to you, by the way, go to this of the bunch is cheaper. All right, well, if you're now having a car, you might want to try it yourselves. I just put in different things. So I did that. So I put in that I wanted to have a go of Davis and this was Birmingham International Airport if I wanted to. Her Fiester. I prepaid that for 28 days. This time, as opposed to a week. £427. 34. Now that you know, if you have got sharp eyes but cannot number underneath. If I was to turn up because my vehicles and drive a ble, it would have cost me £5615.44 Tahoe. A Ford fiesta for maybe some being of international airport for 28 days. Same same location, same company. Ritually is just what can it do you hear? Citrine, Grandpa Augusta £21,205.84. But look. Okay, Put these up. Side by side. The citrine Grumpy caso does not have a prepaid option. Why is he not gonna prepaid option? The answer is simple, because that vehicle is not there. So if you turned up, you wouldn't be able to hire not citrine Graham Picasso. You can pre pay for these vehicles when there is no pale line pale from opportunity. Every sign companies don't have them that just don't exist. I've been rather than go exist out that brunch to higher on that day. So it might be that Avis blooming and Central could have got a vehicle to bury him. International. But that would have been a vis maneuvering their fleet around to Kobe. What's being very quest? So it really is a moan field. And that's why re portal evidence is so important. You know, these are really key points that wanted to drive through relations and days. Webinar. So I hope you're found that interesting. I hope youll be out. Take away. This is a good reason why we want to get every beautiful number of companies out there that doing rebuttals. We don't get star Screenshots, but that's something that we're going to move to. There's just one last thing for you. Okay, try a book of junk you accept. Not a bit There, Please note. When your booking is complete, we will confirm whether this vehicle is available within 48 hours. So even though you've gone through all that up to booking my still not there and thats why this prepaid payment from Pale collection is all relevant. And it's also important supporting re both Libyans. So they go. Someone I hope is on remorseful. Hopefully have enjoyed today's recording. I am Thank you very much for supporting. Isn't data are in line? Careful